Voice chats, social scripts

Adapted from the Fallible Ideas Discord Chat (link at the end of this page)

Cleaned up the formatting and edited a bit to remove off topic stuff and some typos

robert loserierh
Hey does anyone wanna meet in the voice chat

JustinCEO
Nah

internetrules
why in voice chat and not just text chat?

robert loserierh
I like talking better

internetrules
i think that is something you should try to change, idk how you would change that tho

internetrules
what do you like about voice more than text?

JustinCEO
With text it is way easier to quote and look back

internetrules
maybe you type slow, so you dont want to type as much?

JustinCEO
Text is more asynchronous by default. People expect voice chats to have a certain kinda constant flow

JustinCEO
Sometimes people want that in text too but much less so

internetrules
you have to always pay attention to voice chat, and if your not, people have to repeat them selfs

JustinCEO
I had a friend who I used to talk to on voice a lot, and I would get annoyed if they would afk especially if it was sudden

JustinCEO
Cuz it was like bumping up against my expectations of what voice chats should be like, politeness etc

JustinCEO
There are legit reasons to do voice chat like, you are walking somewhere and can’t text (even then audio messages in a text chat can be better). Or you want to comment live on something

JustinCEO
It’s good voice chat exists and it has cases

JustinCEO
But people’s preference for it is often a social vibe kinda thing

JustinCEO
And not based on considering relative merits of different means of communication

JustinCEO
even talking about this kinda stuff can bother a lot of people. Wanting to voice chat is a totally socially normal thing. Doing a bunch of analysis of the merits of voice vs text and then coming to a different conclusion than the normal one is the sort of thing that can strike people as really weird

JustinCEO
It’s signaling to people a certain confidence in your own judgment that strikes them as arrogant

JustinCEO

“Tell me, Miss Taggart, what’s going to support a seven-thousand-ton train on a three-thousand-ton bridge?”
“My judgment,” she answered.

JustinCEO
Challenging social scripts can seem threatening to people in almost a visceral way

JustinCEO
Like they can have a very deep negative reaction to it

JustinCEO
If you don’t comply with a social script but it’s read as incompetence that’s very different. They might still be outwardly polite while judging you

JustinCEO
But if you actually challenge stuff directly, that’s different

JustinCEO
Can get ugly

internetrules
in what way can it get ugly?

mister_person
talking is faster than typing for most people

internetrules
thats a thing that can be changed

internetrules
you can practice touch typing

internetrules
and getting faster at it, and get apps to train you to touch type

internetrules
i currently have a weird hybrid method of typing, but can also switch to touch typing, im alot slower at touch typing than my current hybrid method, but with more practice i can get alot faster

mister_person
I type 80-90 wpm, but I can talk way faster than that

mister_person
most people can’t type at >100 wpm

mister_person
it takes a lot of practice to get as fast as you can talk

internetrules
its still better to type even if you are slower at it, cuz it keeps a record of what you and other people have said, and you can do it at different times.

internetrules
im repeating what me/justin has said, and i dont even know if you disagree with that statement.

JustinCEO
re getting ugly, ppl might get mad if you explain you think birthdays are silly and then don’t wish them a happy birthday on their birthday. they might take it as like u not liking or appreciating them or something. or if u explain to grandma her grandkid doesn’t like hugs and kisses when grandma is coming for holidays, grandma will think u aren’t raising ur kid right

mister_person

https://www.openstenoproject.org/plover/
Plover
Plover, free open source stenography software, allows anyone to write at over 200 words per minute.

JustinCEO
people should learn to type faster but like, people should also kinda slow down in another sense. the issue for a lot of people is not an inability to get all their great thoughts down quick enough but a lack of sufficient thinking that goes into the thoughts in the first place. lots of people could benefit a ton from higher thinking-time-to-output ratio. with typing you can pause, reflect, take a break, edit, before sending stuff. so that is good.

JustinCEO
with voice the default expectation is u take turns saying a stream of not-very-well-considered stuff

JustinCEO
some people who are thinkers might have done a lot of thinking on some point in advance, and so when it comes up they can talk about it extemporaneously in a meaningful way

JustinCEO
and a few especially good thinkers can “think on their feet” and say interesting stuff even when dealing with something that’s pretty novel

JustinCEO
but for like the vast majority of people that’s not rly the case

JustinCEO
my real time voice reply to internetrules’ question about getting ugly would have been worse cuz it took me a minute to come up with the birthday example. i came up with the grandmother thing right away. but if we were talking on voice i might not have had time to think of another example, conversation might have drifted to other topic, whatever.

[some off topic stuff removed]

curi

talking is faster than typing for most people

curi
for virtually everyone

curi
even if u type 120 wpm, some website says avg ppl talk at 125-150 wpm. and i’ve found audio books, which sound slow, are often near 150 or more.

Healthcare freedom thoughts

Adapted from a discord discussion:

TheRat: I am kind of weird because I like the idea of Healthcare for all. But I think Universities should be subject to market pressures to kill most of the deadwood. I think it would make them much more affordable too. But at this point I am wildly guessing at things I have no knowledge about.

universities used to be way cheaper before government tried to ensure everyone got access by giving everyone federally-backed loans, which drove up the price

likewise there are a variety of government actions that drive up the cost of healthcare

the government restricts the supply of physicians and other health professionals, restricts the supply of hospitals (see “Certificate of need”), restricts the supply and increases the cost of pharmaceuticals (through the FDA), distorts the health insurance market (with direct regulations and tax policy stuff like favoring employer-provided insurance), and on and on

if you like the idea of healthcare for all, you should be in favor of laissez faire free market healthcare, which will get us much closer to healthcare for all than some system of govt controls and govt rationing

just as if you’re in favor of Food for All you should want to maintain the current system of private production of food as opposed to shifting to a govt-controlled system

people often think that healthcare is somehow fundamentally different than other things on the market and want to treat it differently in various ways

i do not think there is a case for such different treatment

people will also argue that folks shouldn’t have to economize, that everyone should have healthcare access as a moral ideal

but there is an actual scarcity of doctors, medical devices, etc

how do they propose to deal with that, in a way better than the market will deal with it?

why would a system of govt controls and rationing produce better outcomes than the marketplace would for healthcare, when such govt-controlled systems fail miserably elsewhere?

people have long wait times for various procedures in Canada, UK and the other countries the advocates of healthcare socialism cite as their ideals

I think some people like the long wait times, cuz they would prefer that people all suffer together in the same line rather than having a system where some people could pay to get healthcare faster

i remember hearing about some minor proposed reform in Canada where people would be able to pay privately for some kinda medical tests, and there was a public outcry cuz people didn’t like the idea of folks skipping the queue.

the people willing to pay would actually be helping the govt system, since they’d move out of the queue for the govt system.

like, they already paid tax dollars for their “free” healthcare, and were willing to pay extra, out of pocket, for care outside the system.

but ppl got mad and IIRC this reform wasn’t permitted

also consider someone entering the medical profession, their perspective

if you want to be a doctor and offer patients your professional advice and judgment, how will you feel about the idea of offering care according to a govt schedule, subject to the whims of cost-cutting bureaucrats who know less than you about what a patient needs?

people become doctors so they can offer patients their professional judgment in order to save lives and improve health, not to be some bureaucrat’s bitch

TheRat: Healthcare became so politicized that I find it overwhelmingly complicated to even look at. Got half the experts saying one thing the others the exact opposite

regarding some of these experts

townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2014/11/10/obamacare-architect-yeah-we-lied-to-thestupid-american-people-n1916605

www.breitbart.com/politics/2014/09/18/obamacare-creator-die-75/

Emanuel’s push for people to die at 75 is deeply connected to Obamacare, which insists that care be rationed for the elderly – who, presumably, must be encouraged to make the same “mature” decision about death Emanuel has made. Emanuel pushes back against those attempting to lengthen their own lives, castigating them as morally deficient:

Americans seem to be obsessed with exercising, doing mental puzzles, consuming various juice and protein concoctions, sticking to strict diets, and popping vitamins and supplements, all in a valiant effort to cheat death and prolong life as long as possible. This has become so pervasive that it now defines a cultural type: what I call the American immortal. I reject this aspiration. I think this manic desperation to endlessly extend life is misguided and potentially destructive. For many reasons, 75 is a pretty good age to aim to stop. Emanuel says he will stop having “colonoscopies and other cancer-screening tests.” He wants flu shots stopped for the elderly, as well.

But it’s not enough for Emanuel to feel that way. We all must feel that way, and we must construct policy around that belief. He believes that life-expectancy statistics should be ignored once they move beyond 75 years old. And while he insists that he is not “saying that those who want to live as long as possible are unethical or wrong,” his entire article is premised on that belief. Otherwise, why write it? And given the fact that Emanuel directs the Clinical Bioethics Department at the National Institutes of Health, his opinion carries weight.

it’s no accident that the advocates of socialism are, literally and explicitly, the advocates of death, and that they stand against unlimited progress

a patient in the free market has aligned incentives with his doctor. you pay a doctor and he’s happy to give you the benefit of his time and judgment. the doctor takes good care of the patient and the patient will recommend the doctor and maybe come back for more visits down the line when necessary.

in a bureaucratic system of controls and rationing, the patient is one of a group of people in a line waiting to get their ration of care. the doctor has to provide a certain number of care-units per week in order to meet their quota, and provide such care according to certain cost controls imposed by the provider of the “free” care. healthcare being “free”, the doctor knows he will always have an unlimited number of beggars — i mean patients — waiting in line for his attention, so he does not have much incentive to do an outstanding job, nor does he have the time or resources to do so even if he were so inclined.

the govt cost controls clash with doing an outstanding job, and the unlimited demand for “free healthcare” means he spends a bunch of time dealing with the cuts and sniffles and imaginary diseases of people queuing up for their “free” care. between such marginal visits and the paperwork overhead of the bureaucratic healthcare system, he doesn’t have much attention or time left over for dealing with people’s more serious medical issues. the incentive structure he faces is not based on what’s best for the patient and what will best serve the needs of people in the marketplace for medical care, but only on what the govt demands. he who pays the piper calls the tune.

but don’t worry, everyone gets free flu shots and band-aids so it’s all good!

Another thing people say is profiting off illness is wrong so healthcare should be run as not for profit

First thing there is that profiting off sickness is literally not what happens

Doctors offer their services to try to make you well. They offer reasonable attempts helping improve your wellness. They don’t get a check when you get sick

Also demanding that someone provide services not as a profit is demanding that someone labor for you and get no benefit. That’s demanding slavery

Also you should want a system where your incentives are aligned with the doctor’s. Instead of the doctors incentives being aligned with the bureaucracy’s dictates

You wanna be the consumer

It’s like, Facebook’s real customers – the people who pay the bills – are the advertisers, so FB kinda sucks from a consumer perspective in terms of privacy and stuff

Whereas with Apple, incentives are aligned way better cuz Apple is catering to the ppl paying $1K for their phones etc

Gotta Cut Back

Environmentalism offers the same answer regarding the satisfaction of human desires/ends/purposes it doesn’t like, regardless of the situation or subject matter or purported crisis-of-the-moment.

new ice age? gotta cut back. global warming? gotta cut back. peak oil? gotta cut back. plenty of oil? gotta cut back.

use petroleum? gotta cut back. use nuclear? gotta cut back. use coal? gotta cut back. use hydro? gotta cut back.

ride planes? gotta cut back. drive a car? gotta cut back. use plastic bags? gotta cut back. use plastic straws? gotta cut back. like meat? gotta cut back.